Knife Talk Online Forums
  Home membership Help Search Calendar Members Classifieds Treasury Store Links Gallery Media Center Login Register  
Custom Search
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: The REAL Bowie Knife  (Read 40782 times)
0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2008, 03:14:17 PM »

(3) English & Hubers


* Huber DSC00111.JPG (34.88 KB, 640x480 - viewed 430 times.)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 03:52:45 PM by radicat » Logged
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3448



View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2008, 04:43:39 PM »

The knife (lot # 6) has one beautiful top clip. I feel she is later than the one I suppled photos of.  She was still probably made before the Alamo. One nice knife!
Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
caknives
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 592


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2008, 06:05:23 PM »

That lot # 6 Huber has the same notched guard as the one in your pics Ed. I think its supposed to be like that. But why...
Logged

Don't take life to seriously, you'll never make it out alive.  - Van Wilder
Harold Locke
Member
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
***
Posts: 599


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2008, 06:31:51 PM »

Ed,

Thanks for the link to Greg Martin's Auctions, I just spent a couple of hours going through the catalog, Donald Littman sure provided well for his desendants.

Wow, just Wow

Harold Locke
Logged
radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2008, 07:24:12 PM »

Okay, I admit I'm obsessed with the functional attributes and practical use of any design.
So, humor me here.

There is one thing this knife will do, with the notched (scalloped) guard, that it would not be capable of doing without them. It can stand up.

What made me think of this?
I recently received the gift of an older French steak knife set. The handles are almost square. They are full tang with tapered steel throughout. The edge is higher than the lower side of the handle. These knives were designed to be placed on a table, sitting up, with the blade not soiling itself or the table linen.

The bowie would have to be placed upside down or have the handle extending over the base it's on , but the same principle could apply.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 07:53:49 PM by radicat » Logged
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3448



View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2008, 08:22:06 PM »

Like Clay said it would stand up if you had a flat place to put it. I have tried it with the Huber I have been privileged to handle and it does stand up real clean.

A sales pitch?  I don't fathom any other reason for it, I do remember some time back one knife outfit displayed their knives this way and it looked pretty cool.

The guard on the Ames Rifleman's knife is almost flat, but won't hold the knife, at least on mine. Maybe one day I will make one like it and try to find a use, in the meantime it is just nice to my eye.

The guards or quillions to be more correct on the Huber and the Ames are a delightful departure to the thin ones on the Sheffield copies of our early American made knives.
Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2008, 10:49:15 PM »

It's interesting the variety of styles given the bowie classification.

Joshua Vossler, website builder, just finished a nice website for C.J. "Chet" Deubel.

Chet makes a variety of styles that are typical. The photo below of Chet's version has the same spear point and sharpened clip profile of an authentic Civil War Confederate bowie featured on the Antiques Roadshow. That knife had a round beech handle and a cross-guard, but the same blade style. Value $1500, with scabbard $5-7000. Check out Chet's Michael Price style too.

http://www.cjdeubel.com


* deubel66a.gif (52.09 KB, 400x300 - viewed 442 times.)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 01:10:25 AM by radicat » Logged
radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2008, 05:39:26 AM »

Take a look at the website for the Arkansas Historical Museum in Little Rock. Not many knives are shown, but the older knives in their collection are very important to Bowie knife history. Some modern (and important) knives by Lile  and older Sheffields are also there.

When you get to the bottom of the intro page, click on "knife collection" to go to the other photos.
"Bowie No. 1" is among them.  Notice the variety of styles of the day.

Also, I'm curious what some of you think about the handles on a couple of them turning upward. Seems awkward to me. The comment that Bowie held his knife in a peculiar way (but not explained to my knowledge) may have something to do with this handle design. Could he have held it edge up? Was he left or right handed? Did he reach for his knife across the body? And, if so, did this have anything to do with the handle angle?
There were accounts of James being a trained swordsman. And, of his unusual stance when he held his knife out in front of him as a swordsman might. Knife fighting was serious business and I would think James knew he was more likely to be up against a sword than a knife, thus, a little distance was needed.




http://www.arkansashistory.com/knife_gallery/
Logged
K Salonek
Crow Valley Forge
Trade Count: (0)
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 155

Kevin Salonek


View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2008, 09:02:45 AM »

Just my $0.02 cents worth....

If you stand with arms down and your hands relaxed (natural or neutral) with say a dowel in your hand. The dowel would point somewhere in front of you feet.

Holding a knife with an up-turned handle would place the tip of the blade in an up-turned 'ready'.

Sabers usefulness in a fight have some of the same advantage for an attack into the rib cage from bellow. As the up-turned blade is more inline with the arch of the swing.

Holding the blade in such a manor, arm lowered,  is an established 'block' against it's only  known effective counter-move (before guns mind you) the dreaded swift(er) kick to the knadds.

Logged

radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2008, 12:53:59 PM »

Kevin, I agree that in the use of the weapon, the handle angle has an advantage. The saber is a good example. It just seems to be a little awkward to take in hand. But, we have no way of knowing how he carried it most of the time. Probably in a manner that was most comfortable on horse-back and required no re-adjustment after dismounting. I would think most likely slung across his belly. A horse, as you know is not always a smooth ride and a heavy knife could beat you up, if hanging loose at the side. Also, these men wore heavy long-coats a lot of the time to protect themselves from the brush and the elements. That might make it difficult to take a knife in hand quickly. 

Just a note: Witnesses to the Bowie's Sandbar fight agreed about how the fatal thrust of Bowie's knife happened. He was on the ground after being stabbed numerous times by the secreted sword-canes of at least two attackers. When the one man came at him to stab him again, Bowie reached up, grabbed him by the coat (probably with the sword-cane blade stuck in him) and thrust upward into the man's abdomen. End of fight.

Thanks for posting the photo.                                 Clay 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 01:18:15 PM by radicat » Logged
Ebbtide
Trade Count: (0)
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 21


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2008, 07:03:42 PM »

How would that upturned handle fare when cutting on a table?
Or cutting hanging meat.

I know nothing of meat processing, but maybe we are coming at this from the wrong angle.

Could it be "a big butcher" knife first, weapon second?
Logged

Just say NO to knife abuse.
radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2008, 01:02:44 AM »

That's a good question Ebbtide. The design would be more useful to butchering than a straighter design.

These men traveled extensively across the plains of the South and Mexico and ate what they killed, probably immediately afterward. Deer and buffalo were plentiful. They probably butchered daily.

In my reading of the Lewis and Clark chronicles, I was struck by the many accounts of butchering game on the spot and not even considering carrying the burden, even if food may be hard to come by later. It was reported that the average amount of meat eaten daily by each man was eight pounds, It was about all they ate. They needed the energy to do what they did.

Meat was sometimes eaten raw and the dogs finished up the left-overs. By the way dog was the favorite food of the men on that expedition. They often traded huge amounts of large animal meat to the Natives for their dogs. It was considered a delicacy. Even their favorite and bravest dog was eaten.

I would have let that dog eat me first, I believe. Some refused to do the deed, but starvation was near. 

I sat here imagining how that handle would be easy to take in hand if slung across the belly. That is the only mount I can think of in which it would not be awkward to get hold of fast or have a hand on as a suspicious character approached. In other words, everyone Bowie met.
Logged
Ebbtide
Trade Count: (0)
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 21


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2008, 02:26:02 PM »

I used to threaten my dog with a Lewis & Clark book
"It sez here...."

Considering that the brawl on the sand bar was Bowie's only reported use of the knife...I think a dressed up "big butcher" knife could have been it.
It would be interesting to see if other meatcutting knives of the time had similar offset or "bent" handles.

As to carrying and deploying it, well I think that the pistol would have had precedence with the knife taking second place.

Interesting...if that Bowie #1 was on a dangler/sword type of sheath would it be easier to draw?

So many questions  Grin
Logged

Just say NO to knife abuse.
cunningham
Trade Count: (0)
Newbie
*
Posts: 1


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2008, 04:01:46 PM »

I have had tangs pull up when edge quenching,especially when using water and not heating the tang to the same temp as the blade.The longer the handle,the more you see it.Could this be the reason for the bent handle? Chad
Logged
radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2008, 07:01:46 PM »

Welcome to the forum Chad. It could very well be that the upturned tang happened the way you suggest. And, maybe someone said "Shoot, I like it."

Unfortunately for the blacksmith, the guy's brother might have wanted one too.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!