Knife Talk Online Forums
  Home membership Help Search Calendar Members Classifieds Treasury Store Links Gallery Media Center Login Register  
Custom Search
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: May 2007 Blade Review of the Knife Talk 52100 Vol. 1 DVD  (Read 3700 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Harold Locke
Member
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
***
Posts: 599


View Profile WWW
« on: March 31, 2007, 03:43:30 PM »

Fellow Forum Members,

I have just reread the review by David Rhea of the knife Talk DVD. I have the feeling that the DVD is being down played. Nothing real bad was said about the DVD it's what was not said that bothered me.

What upset me.

1. Through out the reviews the constant allusion to production value?Huh? The viedo and the editing of Kife Talk DVD was very good the sound track very natural and easy on the ear.

2. The ommission as to the value of the High Performance Knife and the forging methods proscribed to in the video and what it would mean for independent knifemakers to make blades that would put factory produced knives at the disadvatage. The ability to out preform and be the tool that can be called man's best friend could be the main saving grace of the American knife industry.

3. The the 180 degree flex test. I haven't counted the flexes on the video yet but I felt that we didn't see all the flexes because of fades and editing. I have watched the video three time now and I don't remember a follow up to "How many was that Rex? We can count them when we rewatch the video." The author of the article claimed 15, 180 flexes. Maybe so but that is 29 more flexes that is required to get your Mastersmith stamp if I understand the requiremnt correctly.

These comments have been bouncing around in my brain for days. Now I got it off my chest. Am I the only one that noticed it?

Like to hear if other people feel the same.


Harold Locke

p.s. What about Blade Mag's fascination with knife designers as oppossed to Knifemakers that are both?    

Logged
radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2007, 04:45:56 PM »

    They must have thought Ed and Rex were looking for an Oscar. They don't talk much about the content of the movies at the award show. Reviewers that don't know much about the subject dance around it with fancy footwork. In the end they are revealed for what they are. This is a family channel, so I'll not make further comment.         Clay
Logged
busterbones
Administrator
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
*****
Posts: 33



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 09:19:13 AM »

Harold and Clay,

This has certainly been on my mind for quite some time as well.  At first I thought I would just keep it to my  myself, but now that I see that others share my view....

Yes, the review in Blade focused mostly on the production value and compared it to films made by Hollywood.  How this is a fair comparison is beyond me.  That's like comparing him to TIME Magazine's critic, Richard Schickel.

This review missed the boat completely.  First, he looked at this as if it was a feature film review (which he has no experience in).  Second, he failed to acknowledge that this DVD was produced by 4 individuals (Ed, Rex, Tena, and myself) with no budget and a timeframe of a few weeks.  And third, he failed to recognize the years of brilliant knowledge and experience being passed on.  Because he did not touch on this, I have to question his experience in knifemaking as well.

This being said I would like to thank everyone who has made an investment in our dvd, and your thoughts and suggestions are always welcome. Ed and I are in Hard at work on the production of our
second DVD in the series. We will keep you posted on our progress. Thanks for all your support and kind words.


Jeremy R
Busterbones
Logged
Robertv6
Member
Trade Count: (0)
Sr. Member
***
Posts: 121


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 06:51:05 PM »

Jeremy, Guys,

My spin, is just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, ..... one man's floor is another man's ceiling!  I personally dont give a hootin damn what the "expert critics" have to say about it, I thought, think, it is absolutely wonderful.  Ive watched a bunch of different dvd's on knifemaking, most of them of the homespun variety, that are not nearly as well produced.  Its like going on to yahoo and looking at what the new movies are that are playing.  Normally, the "critics" pan the really good movies, and the ones they say are good, are lack luster at best. 

Ive watched both dvds of yalls several times each, and i learn something each time i watch them.  Now my wife, being the understanding woman she is, has a limit, and after the 3rd time, she suggested i should go up front to watch it.  ive also seen dvd's, 2 come to mind, that were, are real big on fluff, nice cover, great intro
good music, but after viewing, i was wondering why i wasted my hard earned money on it? 
Jeremy, Ed, Rex,  Id finish by saying, these dvd's are kinda like ed's knives.  (sorry to be longwinded).... when i first came by this site a couple of months back, i was reading all of the posts, bought the dvds, bought some 52100 from Rex..... i bought into the triple quench process.  Though ive had some blades warp doing this and some turn out good, i BELIEVE that this process improves the blade.  Ive spoken back to some of the people who first got me into this craft, and they are still naysayers with regard to the triple quench, that a single quench is sufficient, so why screw up a good thing if it comes out right the first time?  Now, that being said, these dvds are the same thing.  Ed's idea of how to get the best knife came by him following his own ideas, trials, research, and he didnt listen to what the "crowd" was saying.  Pretty much marching to his own drummer.  I say the same thing about these dvd's.  I like the way they are, which is honest, and lots of material and ideas were....are....presented.  If it aint all fancy like some "expert critic" thinks it should be, oh well, i think they missed the point of them entirely.
last question.  I wonder how many of the "expert critics"  actually make knives and how many are just arm chair quarterbacks?

Blue skies
Logged
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3443



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 08:14:53 PM »

The information presented in the DVD is the result of over 8 years that Rex and I have been working together. Everything we state is based on what we have personally observed. We could do many more DVD's on what did not work and what we learned by experiments that had unintended consequences that increased our knowledge inspite of our expectations.

We did it because we wanted to, pure and simple it was fun. We could have chosen to keep secrets and make others work for it. That is not our nature, we strongly believe that if we share and bring others into seeking the best blades possible we will gain from them and all will gain together.

I was seeking to make a DVD, one estimate came in for $6,000, if the State would come up with matching funds. !!! I did not have $6,000 and hate the thought of getting government into our work.

 This DVD would not have happened without Jeremy offering to send me a camera and Tena volunteering to film it. It was a team effort with one goal, sharing what we believe is valuable informatin to those who share our desire to make what I call High Endurance Performance Blades available to as many people as possible.

We had no script, we just took a piece of steel from a 5 1/2 inch round bar and told its story as it became a knife blade including as many facts as we could along the way. Jeremy did a fantastic job of condensing 20 or more hours of tape into the presentation in the DVD.
When I view the DVD I am amazed when I can find nothing he omitted, the important facts are there for all to see.

The photomicrographs that came available months after Jeremy did his work are displayed in this forum. They are convincing and speak to what we have achieved and now through Jeremy's contribution share with all who wish to know.

I just sent some more experimental pieces of steel to Rex and maybe we have another event to share. We keep searching and now all who read this can join if they chose. If the experiment works out I will be pleased, if not we have more to explore.

I what to thank all who support us, it is good times.
Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
PhilL
Administrator
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1067



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2007, 06:53:28 PM »

I think you folks did an outstanding job of sharing your findings and your method. Your reasons for making the DVD is clear in the first minutes and should be understood even by the most dense. I'm often surprised that two people can look at the exact same thing and see something totally different.
Logged

You can have anything You want in Life, as long as you?re willing to pay the Price.
So, figure out what price there is to pay, and Pay It.


K Salonek
Crow Valley Forge
Trade Count: (0)
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 155

Kevin Salonek


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 10:31:26 AM »

Let them say what they want, the Craftsman never will ask a bystander technical advice.  A better way to refer to the flexing section would be to say 'and I cringed every time Ed flexed such a fine example of cutlery, as it out cut anything I ever seen before!' .

The oldest back-country court room ploy in the books is to question an exact  amount. Could we just say that it flexed 'A LOT' ?

The real bottom line is what you can say about it, not against it.

The first knife I made was a sharpened wore out hacksaw blade with twine-string wrapped around the other end for a handle, very beautiful,,,,,, if your cutting twine on hay bales for cows. Since watching the DVD's, my blades improved.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 10:34:06 AM by K Salonek » Logged

radicat
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 12:35:21 PM »

That's a knife anyone should be proud of. I see the clouds reflected in the blade and the bearings.

It reminded me of one reason that a highly polished blade is of value. If you're down and can't move in the woods, it will serve as a mirror to signal your location. That may sound like an unlikely scenario, but it is far more likely than you having a need for a painted blade to prevent detection in a covert operation.

Coated blades are sometimes touted as being "protected" but, it's really just a production cost saver supported by hype.
Logged
Alan
Member
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
***
Posts: 690


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2007, 08:34:14 AM »

Well the truth is, that I too made a few suggestions about that DVD of Ed's after I had watched my copy a few times.
http://knifetalkonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=283.0

Painfull as it is, our critics do us a service.
Painfull as this is, it's the way it has to be if a person wants to get better at anything.
Painfull as it may become to listen to, we need to allow our worst critics to rip into our works of love.

It's hard not to take the efforts of a critic in a very personal manner.
What the artist makes with his love, is just a "thing" to the critic.
What the artist presents in the very best light, is flipped over and examined from underneath by the critic.

Many times the artist will react in anger against the painfull words of the critic, asking the critic if he could have done any better himself?
But the truth is that the critic could not have done any better than the artist at all, and thats not the point.

The critic was not saying that he could have done better than the artist.
The critic was saying that the "Artist could have done better"

And thats true in my own case with the "Suggestions" I wrote about too.
I took a long time to write down my "Suggestions" to Ed about what I believe could be real helpfull for his next DVD.
Yes, I understand that my list of suggestions may appear to be just very picky about what I felt was wrong with a past effort.
And I understand the natural reaction of some forum brothers to defend a friend.

But a friend may also from time to time see the gain in another's work from them listening to a critic.

Here http://knifetalkonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=283.0 I make first 15 "Suggestions" for Ed's next DVD.
They are the first things that really jumped out at the viewer that need to be addressed in the future.
The next "suggestions" I made are of a more general nature about making something more fun to watch.



« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 10:52:05 AM by Alan » Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!