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Author Topic: My favorite Loveless knife  (Read 6185 times)
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 09:16:46 AM »

Why the clip point?

What benefits does it provide and what are the functional costs?
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mreich
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 10:32:25 AM »

#1- Looks really cool with the sweeping spine.

#2- Only advantage of clip points I recognize is that they potentially have wickedly pointy points.

It's a trade-off, because fine points can't be as tough.

I like everything except the concentric finger choils.

If you can't get enough penetration by balling one hand over the butt of the knife, and smacking your fist with your hand, I wouldn't hesitate to baton the nice metal butt-cap of that knife with a stick.

I've seen sheaths that have to have a large entry hole to accommodate a substantial hilt. This sheath also looks like it has a built in stop that the front of the guard butts against to make it impossible for the knife to over-penetrate the sheath. The condition of the lacing shows that there must be a good welt glued in place to protect the stitching.

Jeezuz, did you make that sheath Ed?
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TomWhite
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2015, 01:50:06 AM »

Ed, give me a clue as to the function of the clip point.  I know they have been in service for a long time, so I dont think they are just for looks.  We can consider the popularity of the Bowie knife for this.  I dont know, other than it makes it easier to extract if you stab something.  I have always thought it looked cool.
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2015, 09:26:34 AM »

A friend who was on the first wave of the attack on Iwo Jima and remained through much of the mucking up operation stated that the first bayonets they used did not have clip points and many times the bayonet would stick in the back bone of the enemy, the only way he could remove the blade was by firing his rifle to smash the vertebrae, then they added a clip point and the bayonets did not stick as often in humans.

George Patton designed the Patton sword  with a clip or swedge in order that it would be easier to remove from its target.

While a clip does make penetration easier it also comes with a cost, the tip is weaker and you lose some of the ability to split or pry by driving the point into a target, such as splitting a pelvis or block of wood as Mark Described.  A properly designed tip can be very handy for using the tip as a wedge, I find the use of a blade as a wedge very handy thus do not put a clip on blades I want to carry.   

Clips do look cool, they make knives look meaner, I find the cost in function is not worth it.

I just finished a book "On Killing", the author stated that fixed bayonets had a serious psychological influence on the battlefield instilling fear in those facing them, but were only used less than a fraction of 1% of the time to kill. It seems are more afraid of bayonets than guns.

Even more interesting was the reluctance of infantry men to use bayonets, those who did use one to kill remembered it with great revulsion.

Clips do look cool and it is easy to sell a knife with a clip, they are interesting to develop on a blade and a challenge to maintain adequate function and grace.

Note how much beef Loveless left in the tip between the clip and edge.
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2015, 07:25:03 AM »

I never really thought a Ricasso or for that matter a little larger ricasso could make a difference on a knife.
That is until I started carrying one of Ed's pronghorns .
It is very hard for me to use another blade after having this feature .
The knife is much more workable in a variety of diffrent grips.
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2015, 05:56:50 PM »

Yes, once you have used one with a full ricasso you will definitely come to enjoy it. I am just working up a three finger knife that is designed to be used mainly with the forefinger ahead of the guard. I think it will be my next personal knife.

One more thing about clips, if you sharpen the clip the knife is suddenly unlawful in a lot of states. This is one reason I always make sure the clip has a flat surface. It just takes a second and you are doing a favor for who ever buys it in that they will not be as likely to get nailed by some over active law enforcement officer.

Many do not notice that the top edge is dulled. This is one way to protect your clients.

Naturally if the client wants a sharp clip I will make one for him along with the warning of its potential to get him into trouble.  Some makers charge extra for sharpening the clip.
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TomWhite
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2015, 10:37:57 AM »

Thanks for the legal replications.  It is hard to believe we have come this far.  Butcher knives cause more issues than any other knives.  I nearly cut my thumb off with one.  As I recall, in the 80's the Navy contracted out for a new knife.  Lots of stuff was submitted.  The guy that won the competition couldn't produce enough, (hand made knives take time).
Loveless had his design going and I would bet that he considered the clip point, as you say, looks like the point on  this knife is pretty strong.  I would expect it to hold up to most any abuse you could do by hand.
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2015, 08:39:27 AM »

How about Bob's signature on the blade? What to you think about it and would his signature with a vibro engraver make you look further or would you appreciate it more than a "professional makers mark"?
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TomWhite
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 03:10:37 PM »

The signature is done with great skill, (if you are using an engraver).  This was not done with a run of the mill electric engraver, (the metal is of course quite hard).  I suspect that Bob had an air powered engraver which is pretty expensive.  This makes sense to me since to me since I believe he was a machinist.  His ability to identify his knives is pretty impressive.  There is no doubt in my mind, that he must have felt this was a special knife.  Of course all of them were.
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2015, 09:20:44 AM »

Two of my most valuable works art are both signed by hand.
The first is a Navajo bowl simply signed on the bottom in pencil "Maria  Popovi" on the bottom. I purchased it in the late 50's. Maria became known as the Potter of "San Ildefanso" Popovi was her son who painted the sides of the pot . As I remember I paid about $65.00 for it. It is beautiful and I have been able to keep it in pristine condition.  A pencil signature seems insignificant and below the "professional quality" signatures often seen in art work.  Today it is worth around $7,000 and its value continues to increase.

The second is a painting done by another Navajo artist, "Tahoma", on the back the price is written in charcoal, $30.00 along with the words "Indian Love Call by Tahoma of Sante Fe." My last offer for the painting was $15,000.

I have always signed my knives with my mark EAF (conected). I use a simple vibro engraver and sign each individually by hand. I have been told I need to use a more "professional" signature, have someone design the mark and automatically etch it onto the blade. I have declined because I feel the personal touch is my option.

If I had it do do over again I would still use my makers mark.

I was lucky in that I have always called my knives "Ed Fowler" knives. On a regular basis I get calls and photos from folks who have purchased a "Fowler" knife and want to know what it is worth. Most of these are knives simply marked "Fowler", I wish makers who try to make money off of my name would write their first name on the blade since they have already used "Fowler" and the addition of their first name would be more honest in my opinion.

Were I to start over I would my mark on one side and "Ed Fowler Riverton Wyo." on the other side of the ricasso. The more information you put on your knife, the easier it will be folks to contact  you.

Bob did well with his signature and it worked well for him, it looks simple at first, but there is a lot of knowledge behind it.
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2015, 12:06:53 PM »

Actually, don't care for the hand signature aesthetically but that is simply my preference and I don't mind one bit that it's on his knife, it just tells a different story of a different time in his knives. The mark should not make you like or dislike a knife(thought in todays market I bet it does for many people) to me a signature should not make me like or dislike the knife or the maker, it is simply the "footprints" of the maker it shows a little bit of what he values. When you buy a handmade knife you often buy it not because of the knife but because of the maker.

Maybe my opinion is a bit tainted opinion because most all blades are electro etched these days and so, one without it looks amateurish(the mark really should mean it's amateurish...or professional though) but I like using a logo I designed because there often neater and I would hate to roughen a finished knife:) In my opinion the WHOLE knife is the maker's signature not just the name on it.

I think that's what I meant to say!
Daniel Rohde
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wnelson aka. dedox
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2015, 06:39:09 AM »

Well said!
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"The enemy has only images and illusions behind which he hides his true motives. Destroy the image, and you will break the enemy."-Bruce Lee

?Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.?
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TomWhite
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« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2015, 05:07:26 PM »

Dan, I was just reading on Bob the other night (Mr. Shackleford in May Blade, pp 74)  and the quote I gathered   from the article was that Bob was surprised that his knives became so collectible even early on.  I think he was making users and as he got more serious in how he presented his knives they all of a sudden became collectible.  I couldn't imagine using a chute knife with his famous logo, probably, one of the most collectible knives in the world.  These have a great place in our knife world and are very desirable for those of us that have the chance to own one;   I would love to own one.
Give me a hand signed knife that is up to its makers intention and I will buy it.  Marks and etching have come so far that they are a completely different   from the utility and service you can acquire from an item.  I think a maker?s mark just identifies the maker, not how stuff works.  I definitely agree with you.
Certainly, the better the mark, the higher level of attentiveness it shows of someone?s desire of getting their name out.  Ed?s examples of stuff he has acquired sure give some perspective into what marks really mean though.  If I put my name on something, I suffer on how to get it just right.
As I get older, intrinsic valve has more meaning to me than appearances.
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