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Author Topic: acetylene torch set-up  (Read 1466 times)
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« on: December 09, 2014, 01:41:29 PM »

Hey Guys!
I have been looking into getting a torch setup for my fabrication projects and for heat treating my blades and I  have heard a lot of good things about propane setups and was wondering would this work for the heat treating we do on are blades? from what I hear it just fine for cutting and much cheaper.

Side Note: I saw this and thought it was pretty sweet have you guys seen this before? http://www.petrogen.com/

DR...    

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John Silveira
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2014, 03:18:48 PM »

wow - that's heavy duty.

have no experience with that . would think as long as you can throttle down the tool to a usable heat range it would work ok.

amazing cutting though
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TomWhite
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2014, 05:02:30 PM »

Hey John-
The torch is the key to providing differential treatment, you need to know how to tune the torch and harden the steel before you quench it. You are looking for the color you are painting on your blade, otherwise you won't know what you've got. Ed can show you this.
Tom
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John Silveira
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2014, 05:43:16 PM »

Hey John-
The torch is the key to providing differential treatment, you need to know how to tune the torch and harden the steel before you quench it. You are looking for the color you are painting on your blade, otherwise you won't know what you've got. Ed can show you this.
Tom

Thnx Tom - i get all that - thnx again - what i meant was i have no experience with that form of torch you are asking about. For it to cut through 15 plus inches of steel is some very powerful equipment ( if in fact it cuts in one pass ) Like i say " No experience " with that form of thing.

Have no problem heating and quenching/ hardening the blades i work on.  Have had my ups and downs with it but i'm good to go. 

Someone recently gave me a set of tanks and the hand held parts - just need hoses - plan on doing the heat treat using them.   

have fun

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Joe Calton
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2014, 06:57:49 AM »

That looks like a heck of a setup for cutting! about the only 2 questions I would have about it is that it looks like the tips are pretty large, and if they have a tip that will be small enough for heat treating a knife. and they also look pretty expensive. around $2000 for the basic setup. I just did a search on craigslist and found a complete used acetylene set up with tanks for $375. you could buy a lot of gas for the $1600 difference.
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2014, 08:36:20 AM »

Yep your right. But I don't eat the patrol torch thing that was just a side note I was wondering if you can use propane instead of acetalin to heat treat?I think allot of people use propane on there normal torch set up because its cheaper I was just wondering if you could use it to heat treat.
That torch does have allot of cutting power though!!
DR...
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Joe Calton
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 07:33:58 AM »

I don't know about the propane set up. I have seen just one of those in use, and while it seemed to work really well for the guy using it {he was using one to cut up mobile home frames for the salvage yard}.

but I do know that I love the versatility of having an arc welder and oxy/act set up. between the 2 of them you can do just about anything you would need to in the shop. the act may be more expensive to buy, but since there are tons of them on the used market, what you save in the purchase of the equipment will offset the cost of the gas for quite a while.

although I will say that the other day I used a small 120 volt buzz box to weld a new striker holding plate inside the door frame of one of my work trucks, and it worked ok, so I may be looking for a bit nicer, portable arc welder that runs on 120, for jobs outside the shop, as my big arc welder is pretty much set where it is, and the leads aren't long enough to leave the shop.
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mreich
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 11:45:35 AM »

I wouldn't use a torch that was totally designed to do something opposite of your intended use and purpose. It's a special kind of torch. The one you don't want.

You need an O/A set-up because of it's versatility. Among all the welding/brazing tips, cutting head and tips, and different heating heads, you can do so many things, and have the right tool for every job.

Look for the medium duty Smith start-up kit. It comes with everything to get you going for about $250. You basically pay for the regulators and the rest is free, and there's a lot of stuff. I've always liked Smith torches the best.

The expensive things are the damn bottles. Don't assume you can pick up a bottle from an individual and find a place to fill it. Make sure your local gas supply store will fill or exchange your bottles.

It cost me right at $1000 for the rig I'm talking about with large bottles full of gas. I couldn't get by without a rig at both of my shops.

A man's got to have the right tools.
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 06:46:20 PM »

Quote
A man's got to have the right tools.
totally agree. I guess will be saving up and getting a good acetylene setup I feel I will use on allot. I wasn't planing on on having the bigg(est) bottle(250lb) I was going for something like 80lb-100lb would that be okay for starters?
Thanks
 
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2014, 11:59:11 AM »

You only buy the bottles once, you will make fewer trips to town to fill them if you buy the big bottles. I bought my first set in the 50's, it did not take long and I bought the big bottles. The only benefit of the small bottles comes when you have to carry them to the field for some repair work. I have used them most of my life and can sell them for less than I paid. I consider them a better investment than money in the bank.
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mreich
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2014, 12:01:24 PM »

I don't think I've ever used anything except the "normal" shop rig. One size is omnipresent, while I really don't recall seeing anyone use anything else.

One of the main reasons people use bigger tanks for propane or acetylene is to avoid over consumption of the bottle's rate of delivery, or as they say, "freezing up" a bottle. Propane bottles just quit delivering propane, even though there's a bunch left. It's very dangerous with acetylene, but I don't remember why.  

I can tell you that a heating head can use a lot of gas in a hurry, and you wouldn't have much time to heat something with small bottles.

If all you want is something to heat a blade, you could get by with a lesser rig. If you use a heating head and have a batch of blades to do, you'll just have to play carefully.

A full size set-up is an investment, no doubt about it. It will last all the rest of your days though, and you'll always have the capability to cover the full spectrum of torch-ery, which is very good for morale.  Grin  
 
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2014, 01:12:34 PM »

darn it! all well guess I'll just have to save up and cry once I've been through this before Wink 
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TomWhite
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2014, 03:26:29 AM »

Looks like the bottles are the major part of the investment.  I thought you could rent them.  I'm guessing you have to purchase and then have them refilled.  1000$ is a big investment, and does this cover both oxy and acetylene?  I have been looking at rigs but haven't priced the gas yet.
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Joe Calton
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2014, 09:32:54 AM »

when I bought mine I got it from a guy that ran a local sporting goods store. he bought it new figuring he would use it a lot. he said he used it for 2 projects and then it sat in his shop for 10 years, so put it in the store. I want to say that I bought it for a couple hundred, and it came with the bottles, regulators, the cart to hold them, and a couple different tips and goggles and such.

when I went to refill the bottles, they started me an account and just swapped them out. I guess even if you buy the bottles from them, they still just swap them out. he said if I did not have the bottles that I could rent them at like $40 per month for both, plus the gas that I used. the nice thing about swapping them out is that they take care of certifying them when they need it.

the ones I have are medium sized I guess, the oxy bottle is about 4 foot tall, and the acetylene bottle is about 3 foot tall. and I only swap them out once a year or so. but I don't use them for heat treating, and use the forge for most heating projects in the shop. I also have a bracket mounted on one of my trailers that holds the cart, and several extra sets of hoses for when I used to cut mobile home frames up with it.

that is why I suggested going used. I mean how many rigs are there out there just like the setup I bought? and how many folks actually "use up" a a/o setup? and the ones that have been used hard and not taken care of are pretty obvious when you look at them.  but it would be a good idea to visit your local welding supply house and see what brands they keep parts and tips for, and keep an eye out for those brands. or run an ad in the local paper, or craigslist to find a good set, or my local welding supply house has a corkboard where folks can put a note saying that they are selling their old sets so yours probably does also.

also you can think of it a bit differently now that you are selling knives. how many knives will you have to make to pay for the set, and how much more efficiently can you make knives once you have the set paid for?
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2014, 10:01:37 AM »

I will be keeping my eyes open for a setup on CL.
DR..
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