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Author Topic: 52100e Woes  (Read 1486 times)
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Any 22
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« on: March 31, 2014, 05:11:17 PM »

OK I thought I had this and I don't mean being the best just up in the good category BUT I AINT. I decided to make some cut test with some of my knives im using a full piece of 3/8 hemp rope. Im using Eds prescribed hardening , tempering methods. I felt I was doing well BUTTTT!!!!! cutting rope I got 90 cuts with my blades. L6 knives got 60 so better than that But I felt between 2 n3 hundred was where I would be . NOT EVEN CLOSE. I anneal grind harden with a torch to non magnetic quench refrigerate 24 hrs. 3 times then temper at 400  n refrigerate 24 hrs 3 times beautiful temper lines cant cut with a file etc etc. what am I doin wrong. Steel is from McMaster Carr in 1 " bar    

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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2014, 06:41:57 PM »

Your heat treat sounds good. did you forge it? what oil did you quench it in? all I can think of is possibly not sharpened the way that would make allot of cuts.

(it would be helpful to now the grind type, thickness, length, etc...). have you had other 52100 blades do about 200 cuts?

off topic how did you heat treat the L6 blade(and where did you get the steel?)?

I hope you can figure out where you mite be going wrong(BTW it good to here your tested it and found you need to work some kinks out of your process)

DV....
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Joe Calton
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2014, 08:40:53 PM »

that sounds odd. the 1" bar from McMaster that I have gotten over the last couple years has been very good steel. ive used several 6 foot bars of the 1" diameter 52100e and haven't found a bad stick yet.

Start from the beginning.

what temp are you forging at?
how much scale is on your anvil or powerhammer dies during forging and what size is it?
are you doing the post forging quenches, normalizations, and anneals?
when you heat the blades with the torch, are you watching for the phase change?
what are you quenching in?
how did you set your tempering temperature? kitchen ovens can vary by 100 degrees
how are you grinding? are the blades getting overheated?
are you keeping the edge cool when sharpening? a belt can overheat an edge in a hurry
what are you doing the final sharpening with?
are you getting enough off the edge to get rid of the decarbed steel before you sharpen?
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John Silveira
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 01:56:47 AM »

 Hello
just my own thought that just came to me that might relate to this post.

Regards De-carb ,  seems like most of what i hear is leaving a 30-40 thou thick edge so metal ( the de-carb portion ) can be sharpened off to reach good steel for a better edge.

i'm not good at explaining things sometimes but here goes -

suppose the edge gets sharpened and the SIDES of the blade at the edge have good steel right ?   Would it make a difference grind say a couple thousand off that actual dimension of the profile at the edge ?   Shave the couple thou off the Height of the blade by grinding it off the actual edge . So if the blade is 1-1/2 in. from top of spine to edge is 2  thou shorter ...   Maybe that will remove more de-carb that wouldn't be removed until lots more sharpening of the blade away -- Huh

sometimes i get a blade too thin for heat treat and what i'll do is shave that edge down in case i've cooked the edge during HT/

allright - done.
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Any 22
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 07:56:22 PM »

 I have sold all my knives but am in the process of hardening a knife right now . I will back my temper temp to 387 on this one and try that . Also plan on hanging on to it awhile to do some testing . I use a flatgrind sharpen with a 400 grit belt then finish up on a diamond stone. that's as sharp as I ever went with one. I did my first hardening tonight and checked it with a file. it wouldn't scratch it.  The only variance I have is the quenchant , I use something like Goddards gook a mixture of oils with some wax in it . Cant find any of eds stuff in a small enough quanity to buy . a 55 gal drum to Louisiana would be cost prohibitive to me.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 08:01:18 PM by Any 22 » Logged
mreich
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 07:01:08 AM »

If your blades are getting hard enough to skate a file, it's probably not your quenchant (but I would try to find real quench oil anyway- it's not difficult or terribly expensive).

Can you slice paper? That will tell you a lot about your edge. If it slices cleanly and quietly, you are doing well.

If the cut on the paper is not clean and quiet, you need to work on that. Could be decarb, but not likely. For it to be decarb, that would mean you never raised a burr, and never reached the edge. 

If you are leaving a burr, one side of the slice of paper will be "fuzzy", the other cleaner.

If you test sharpness on arm hair, you need to test it on both arms. With a very slight burr, it will shave one arm but not the other.

A 400 grit belt edge should be sharp enough to pass these tests if you've eliminated the burr.

What size belt grinder do you have? I leather belt with a fine abrasive on it is best at removing a burr, and giving you a truly shaving sharp edge.

Leather belts are easy to find, and not expensive for 1x30" or 1x42" grinders.

Alternately, you could make a leather bench hone. They work infinitely better with good abrasive compound.
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