How does hitting steel make it better?

[Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)]

So is it the heating or the beating that makes the blade better?

if I had two blades one was forged from a 2" diameter bar and one was just cut from flat stock but they had been treated the same they had both been heated up the same amount and both had been treated exactly the same except the forged one had been beat on wile the other hadn't how would they compare in a test?

Thanks
DV...    

[Ed Fowler]

Wayne and I did that experiment years ago comparing 4 5160 blades from the same stock, it is written up in one of my books. It would be close to impossible to achieve the same steel in a 2" ball and flat stock.

I would really like to see someone else try it and see how it works for them.

[John Silveira]

Wayne and I did that experiment years ago comparing 4 5160 blades from the same stock, it is written up in one of my books. It would be close to impossible to achieve the same steel in a 2" ball and flat stock.

I would really like to see someone else try it and see how it works for them.

Wish you would elaborate on this -    sounds like yu're saying forging blades from the 2" ball stock would be much better than a blade made from basic flat stock ...  Tomorrow i'll be at the blacksmith shop finishing forging down the 3" ball bearing i have.  Right now it's been forged down to about 18" long x1" wide and it's still almost One inch thick.    I'm going to enjoy making a blade from that and testing it to destruction.

I also have two lengths of 52100  13"x 1-1/2"x 3/16 thick that i will forge a blade from and test to destruction.   

Since my friend who made a blade from my 2-1/4" round stock 52100 a couple weeks ago and it shattered like glass i'm going to be very concerned about finding out how these blades i'll be testing hold up to a flex test -    I plan on doing 3 tempering to the blades.
 

[Ed Fowler]

What I am saying is that if you do everything right the potential performance of a blade that has known a large amount of reduction by forging can be a superior blade ground from flat stock.

The variables  you cannot define are the differences in the blade from the flat stock when compared to the preterites of the steel you develop from the bearing. They may be and probably most likely are from different pours of steel and different steel mills. The condition of the steel when you start will be different.

This is why when I start with a new billet, 3" X 3" X 6" I always give it a soak at critical temp for 6 hours and let it cool down slowly, this puts each billet at the same condition. You do not have to do this with bearings as they have already been heat treated and your work will obviate any inconsistency (probably).

Hope I have explained well, if not ask more.

[Joe Calton]

I have thought about this, and it is one experiment of mine that is waiting for me to get time to do it. I would take a piece of 1" 52100 round bar that I get from McMaster Carr, then cut out the center of it with a bandsaw, grind a knife out of it. then forge out a blade from the other end of the bar, heat treat both the same and see what happens.

I haven't gotten to it yet though. but I suppose you could do the same thing with either that steel, or a round bar of 5160 also.

you could to several test runs, and probably should to make sure that one wasn't a fluke. but you could take 2 that were cut from the center of the bar, and just grind one and heat treat, and take the other and run it through several heat cycles, then heat treat it. then compare those with the forged blade and that would give you a good idea of whether it was the heating, the beating, a combination of the two, that made the difference.

[Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)]

I like your I idea it is the way I would have done it to(I think)

It would be neet experiment I would want to cut it in halve and grind a blade out of one

end and then forge the other end and wile heating the other end to forge it I would heat

the little blade I had ground out the same amount of time I had heated the forged blade

and then heat treat in the normal way then I would know whether it was the heating or

the beating(probably both)

Thanks

DV...