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Author Topic: HEPK: A break down of what we want in a field knife  (Read 8132 times)
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« on: April 03, 2013, 07:30:23 PM »

I wanted to start a topic that talks about five parts of what we consider a HEPK these are the five parts that make up are knife:
  The Blade
  The Handle
  The Guard
  The Sheath
  The Overall Package
this topic I hope will go for a long time and discuss each part and at the end I want to be able to write a summary of each "part" that I listed that make up what we consider a HEPK so get lot's of question don't make me do all the asking Grin just so this goes smoothly when you post a question or reply put the part of speech your talking about as a heading the we'l know what part you discussing. I want questions like what,why,how,when and where to have this what size for different things there's all kinds of questions some mite have been asked before but it would be nice to have them all in one place and then put into a summary of are "conclusion" so I want thought's.......and someone tell me if this is dumb!!!!    

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Dennis Mashburn
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 01:32:29 PM »

I'll toss one in for you.  Let's start here.

Blade:
What makes a blade a HEPK blade?

How many cuts on what type and size of rope does it have to do to be deemed HEPK?

How many 180 degree bends does it need to make?

How much force should be required to bend the knife 90 degrees?

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, nor do I know the answer to any of these questions. 
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 06:32:22 AM »

Quote
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, nor do I know the answer to any of these questions.
Those are the exact kind of questions I'm looking for!
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wnelson aka. dedox
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 06:47:23 AM »

could you make a knife that makes 3 or four 180 degree bends or just make it "good enough" for what your customer would need, because do you really need a knife that will do six 180 degree bends?
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davidm
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 04:05:30 PM »

This is one of the most impressive destructive tests i have come across, posted online. It has gotten somewhere over 60,000 views on youtube- and this is a production knife. Does it qualify as HEPK?
Only in lateral bend, which is <40 deg. is where it is not pushed far beyond normal limits.

http://youtu.be/irEZB8hvGzw
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 04:14:11 PM »

That is one great testing session David: thanks for posting it.

Testing can be developed to demonstrate the strong aspects of the knife while ignoring others. While some would call it informative testing, others can see through it. I will remain silent and let some of you stick your necks out and say what you see. Do not fear, this will be a fun deal - at least that is my intent.
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davidm
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 09:59:02 AM »

Thanks all! Good points Radicat.  I dont want to go too far off-topic, i guess my real question is about this steel INFI. Shouldnt it be expected to chip out at the edge, put thorough these extreme tests?

Here's a thinner version (tested)  w/ this steel:
http://youtu.be/J7u1WVDBnhY
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davidm
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 10:13:10 AM »

And, in those video tests would a softer spine serve any purposes, or would it become more prone to take a bend?
 - a 210lb person standing on it?
- prying the wood board w/ tip?

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mreich
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2013, 12:26:30 PM »

I have a few Busse knives. I've heard from a reliable source that their S101, or whatever they call their other steel, is 5160 with proprietary HT.

I have a couple of infi blades. They surface rust pretty easily, and the rust looks the same as 52100. 

Infi is only 58-60HRC. Homogeneous 52100 is damn tough and springy at that hardness.

You might take the tests with a grain of salt. If I sharpen my "tough recipe" 52100 to a 30* inclusive v-edge, it will chip when I pound it through a bolt. The same blade with a 40* or so inclusive convex edge, will go through a 3/8" bolt without chipping at all. Edge profile is a huge variable.

I expect a homogeneous blade will be considerably stronger, less prone to bend, but more prone to fail catastrophically. I would assume that if Busse could get more than 40* of flex without snapping in half, they would show that.
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 01:21:42 PM »

Ed do you have a mac's thickness for a 5" Pronghorn like a thickness that you don't go over just because it would make the knife impractical? it seems that you could make a knife that could take all kinds of abuse but not be practical most of the time. sometime's it seems we try to make a knife that should handle everything that could possibly think of but is that what a HEPK should be or am I missing something?
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 01:33:52 PM »

Ed what are some times that a knife blade like yours(meaning a highly sturdy)  could have maybe saved a life or a limb or something serious like that? what are some examples that a blade
that could flex 180* six time with 100 pounds of pressure could have made a serous different's?
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davidm
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2013, 03:21:46 PM »

Daniel,
I have heard Ed tell of one experience someone had using a folding knife that snapped. It was a underwater rescue involving a helicopter, where one person was saved and the second person drowned. In that case it would have saved a life for his blade to have bent.
 Another case, Ed's own stories, a blade saving his own life - keeping him from sliding into an icy river.  A man named Jerry Shipman related a story of having to cut himself out of a tractor trailer cab after getting trapped from a tornado. His first blade broke, made by a well known master smith , then used one of Bill Burke's knives w/ Ed's methods to free himself.  Those are a few experiences i have heard.
On thickness of 5" Pronghorn there is quite a variety w/ Ed's knives, being forged gives some variation in thickness, and not adhering to strict patterns too. No such thing as a standard , that i have noticed. The knife i have pictured in yearling thread (pronghorn) has one if the stoutest blades i have seen on a 5" knife.  It isn't all that wide a blade, but is built like a truck. The type of grind makes a big difference i would think.

Thanks Mark! I appreciate hearing your comments and experiences.  You make many good points.
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 04:42:37 PM »

I have heard those experiences too but but the first on you don't need a blade that is as stout as 100 foot pounds of pressure? I don't want to judge to harshly because I'm still wet behind the ears you mite say and have a lot to learn and I have never held one of Ed's knives. this mite be questions that are just something you can't have a direct and "only" answer. I guess I like a blade that will cut and slice really well I don't use my knives for much prying and I haven't even used a knife like Ed's and I want to be able to have it all in my knife(by all I mean all the quality's). I REALLY want to try Ed's knives I want to feel them and work with them I think it would be an educational experience it just sounds like you(meaning Ed) put to much emphasis on strength like you have thicker blades(but I don't even know if you do have thicker blades maybe it's the steel gives you allot more strength than others) and convex edge.
now I don't know why some of those things but I want to learn, I think I just don't understand I haven't even skinned a deer yet(hoping to this fall)so I have allot of learning to do but I just have an idea of your knife but don't really know what your knife is like? and I have an idea of what I want my knives to be but want them functional and reliable, and I'm just throwing my thoughts out there hoping you under stand I'm bad at putting my thought on paper, maybe I just use knives differently than others so ed I guess I came to a question why do you use a convex grind?is it because you think it cuts better,stronger why?
long winded and I'm not sure all of what I said but non of this is supposed to be criticism I just am try to figure thing out I cam across a saying: The greater our knowledge increases the more our ignorance unfolds
Thanks,
Daniel
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 06:51:29 PM »

Is that why he uses the price grind to get different "angles"of the convex?
here's a diagram of three different edges going through a branch

Its a friction thing right?
Thanks Rad that helped allot!!!
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davidm
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2013, 06:57:58 PM »

A convex blade is stronger, correct?  I havent seen convex grinds ever used in cutting competition knives. Most of these are flat ground with a convex edge. My guess is that any extra drag, caused by a full convex grind would cause some efficiency loss in the blade cutting through material. Besides, these (type knives) are not needing lateral strength..  The convex in my mind is more strictly as to reinforce the strength of the knife behind the edge, not make cutting easier. If this is wrong, why do not more bladesmiths employ this grind?
Even among Mastersmiths, i cannot think of many but just a few. Most of them are sold on Flat grind. Which, to me is a crime. It doesn't give much dimension to the knife artistically either, just a flat surface..

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