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Author Topic: aesthetics  (Read 1007 times)
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« on: February 10, 2013, 05:05:10 PM »

starting another topic! Grin in choosing a knife how much do you guy think it comes down to  preference?if you had four knives that cut the same suppose 300 cuts had same strength but each had a different style lets say one had a scandi grind,one with convex, etc.. how much of your choice come down to preference?and shouldn't we make knives based on what our client is going to use it for shouldn't we find out what he's going to use it for and design a knife for his needs? that mite be he's going to Alaska and needs a knife that could need to handle allot or the guy that just goes hunting once or twice a year and whats to waste money on a hand made knife or a fisherman etc..?  so I've got lots of thoughts in here and I'll probably will add more in this topic but I need others thoughts!!!           

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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 11:49:16 PM »

When a client orders a knife I ask him what he wants the knife for? If he says big game and wants a 6 inch blade, my next question is whether he wants a heavy duty blade or medium duty and explain the difference. I also ask if he wants a left or right hand knife and I make it for him.
The same goes for fishing knives or small game. As I listen to his thoughts on knife use we pretty soon come to the knife that will suit his needs best.

The only grind I will put on a using knife is a full convex grind, for many reasons. All Convex grinds are not the same, you can develop a slight convex blade or a heavy duty convex blade, it all depends on what he wants the knife for.

When a client wants a knife that is different than the kind I want to put my name on I send him to someone else.

Did you mean to say "waste money" or invest money on a custom knife?
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mreich
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 07:02:33 PM »

The entire choice comes down to aesthetics of one kind or another, but aesthetics are as individualistic as can be. 

Some guys find the perfect knife for them at walmart.

Some guys think Ed's knives are perfect. Some guys think Dosiers are perfect.

Neither one is much of a compromise of style or function. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum, so how could either one be perfect?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Function is in the hand of the beholder. Aesthetics are in the heart of the beholder. What is most important to you?

Value is very significant, but "value" means completely different things to different people.

For instance, do you understand Ed's question about wasting money or investing money in custom knives?

 

 
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 08:52:27 PM »

thanks guys.waste money on a custom knife was probably was a bad way of saying it but I meant wouldn't it be a waste of money if he only used it once a year?
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Dennis Mashburn
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 09:13:22 PM »

I don't think I can answer this any better than Ed already did, but I will add my 2 cents.

Some guys make all kinds of knives and anything the cutomer wants.  some guys are like Ed an make their kind of knife and try to satisfy the customer.  I don't think there is anything wrong with either style as long as the customer knows exactly what they are getting.

I tend to lean more towards Ed's way, but there is nothing wrong with making art or fantasy knives.  They are not my thing but nothing wrong with it as long as you are honest about it.
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Joe Calton
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 09:25:32 PM »

A waste of money would only apply if whatever you bought did not do its intended job.

one of my best friend's dad is a good hunting buddy of mine. he will not spend over $20 for a hunting knife. so I traded him one of mine for a bottle of scotch. he was shocked when my buddy told him how much they cost. my buddy explained it to him like this:

if you could spend $20 on a knife and cut yourself muscling it through one elk, 5 miles from camp, with a foot or more of snow on the ground, or spend a couple hundred on a blade that you didnt have to force and therefore did not cut yourself with, which one is the better value?

the old knife he had was a winchester walmart special. it would not make it through one elk without either sharpening it several times, or muscling it through and doing alot more ripping and tearing than cutting. the one I gave him made it through 6 elk, half a dozen deer, and he couldnt remember how many antelope. he brought it to me to sign it a few years after I gave it to him, and there were some flat spots on the edge, I asked him when the last time he sharpened it was, and he said he had never sharpened it, and after the second elk decided that I had come up with a way to make a knife that didnt need sharpening {he is pretty good with a knife though}.

he spent almost $1000 on his elk rifle, but still wont spend more than $20 on a knife, but after the first one, he asked me to make him another for another bottle of scotch, so now he has 2, and they will last him the rest of his hunting career. he figures he got a great deal, I figure that friends dont let friends carry walmart winchester knives! heck, if had asked me to make him one for free I would have rather than let him spend one more season with his winchester knife.
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Dennis Mashburn
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 09:30:27 PM »

Joe;  I just suddenly got the urge to run to Walmart and buy as Whinchester knife!
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 10:50:56 PM »

You aren't going to find many people here who have a problem selling or using expensive knives.

If your budget allows, but you have time constraints, you may only get to use your Fowler once per year.

There's nothing wrong with that.

It's important to have really good stuff to pass on to the next generation.

There are a lot of ways to answer your question, but here, the answer is, "No, it's not a waste. It's fine to have expensive knives and do what you wish with them."

It's just like anything else that's important, that you only get to spend so much time with. The time you spend with it is special.


 
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 02:12:31 AM »

I really DON'T want to make those kind of knives(art knives) the makers are amazing at what they do and I respect them but that just not what I want to make!what I think I want to do is make knives of my own design and sell em the for what they are I'd tell them how many cuts they make compared to other knives what it's designed for what it's limitation are what they can expect from it and so on.what do you guys think?another thought if you had two knives that cut the same same convex grind same shape same everything but one looked ugly to you and one looked good and remember they have the same design same style of guard everything do you think the good looking knife will APPEAR to to perform better than the ugly one?
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Joe Calton
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 04:01:01 AM »

just one suggestion. when you say that you want to let customers know that your knives will cut compared to other makers knives, I would simply say that your knives will do this number of cuts with this edge and this lot of rope.

that is what I do, I let them know in every post what tests i put that particular knife through, and what the results were. also where I got the steel, what I did to it, and the basic heat treat.

I do not state what other makers knives will do..........I think that could be a very rough road to take.

I have a few customs by other makers that will not cut very well at all, even with resharpening them and putting my edge on them. to state in a public post that my worst knife would cut circles around "so and so's" knife, would only ruin both our reputations, and lead to a bunch of hard feelings.

if a customer would like to test another makers knife against mine, or test to see if I am truthfull in my statements about my testing, all they have to do is get a piece of rope and do so.

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Dennis Mashburn
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 05:36:22 PM »

Sorry if I got a little off track on you.

To answer your question, I would absolutely pick the knife that looked better to me over the one that did not look as good if performance was equal.  It is not likely a scandi grind would perform the same as a convex, but I would chose the one that looked better to me if performance was the same.  (I don't sare for scandi grind though, so I would not chose it.

Most handmade or custom knives cost a lot more than mass produced knives.  For most folks when they are parting with a good chunk of change they want the item to work well and look good.

I have spent most of my time so far trying to make my knives perform well.  I am gaining on it, but have a lot left to do in that area.  Recently I have have made a couple of knives mostly concentrating on making them look better.  I even made a stock removal knife just to practice my grinding and finishing skills.  That knife will be given to someone who will never use it, even though it does cut pretty good.  It was not intended to be a high perfomance knife and the person getting it will be told that.
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 07:24:13 PM »

I think the prettier knife would appear to be worth more, period.

Joe Average has no concept of "100 cuts vs 200 cuts". He has a hard time seeing more than 5 cuts into the future. It may go like this, "A hundred cuts? Jeezuz! I'll only have to sharpen on leap years!"



Yes, it is difficult to remove the enormous human factor, where you would subconsciously try to get more cuts out of one knife vs. the other.

Some guys go through great pains to try to quantify a blade. They usually cut on a scale, like a bathroom scale.

They try to sharpen the knives equally, but without a bunch of experience, or a guided machine, like the Edge Pro or Wicked Edge, there is a lot of room for error.

In actuality, better looking knives outsell better performing knives all day every day. It's easier to make a pretty knife than a high performance blade too, so combine good looks with a low price, and you are tailoring to the masses.

Ya gotta ask yourself, where are you going to make a stand? Where to start? What path are you going to take?

Right now, it's my Guess that you need to know where to Start, because everything else is speculation that really isn't applicable yet. By the time you get a few knives under your belt, the situation will have changed, and you will have changed.

Even Ed is learning and changing. It doesn't end. The best never stop trying to get better.

  
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