Knife Talk Online Forums
  Home membership Help Search Calendar Members Classifieds Treasury Store Links Gallery Media Center Login Register  
Custom Search
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Knife Video Question  (Read 14300 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« on: January 30, 2013, 12:10:56 PM »

Hey Ed in your second video(52100 wootz) towards the end when you and Rex where siting outside you asked him how much it would cost to buy a
bar of steel like the one you had but you said you would have to get 100 dollars an inch for it so I wanted to know what did you do to it that made it so special?
is there something you do with the bar before you start forging it, anneal ? what is all of your steps to a finished blade? If you don't know what I'm talking or don't want to tell me  just say so.       

Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
jared williams
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 316


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 02:40:31 PM »

i can give some of the reason's why it would cost so much. I sat down and figured what my cost per inch of steel was after all overhead costs and my cost was $75 an inch, that is without any profit added to it. This price included forging down from a 2" round bar at Ed's down to finish dimension. After i figured equipment costs, electricity, paying my time and all the other costs just to work the steel. Low temp forging is very labor intensive and hard on equipment. it does take a certain amount of skill to work the steel properly from side to side and to keep the temps in the right parameters. having steel that is properly forged at the correct temps is crucial for a HEPK. Getting steel from a reputable source that you can have confidence in how it was processed is worth it weight in gold.
Logged

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3503



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 05:49:17 PM »

Jared gave you most of the answers, now add the expense and time involved in developing the process we worked up, Rex and I worked for years, many  phone calls, shipping steel back and forth, then include Rex's time in the laboratory and his knowledge, then add the research he had to do, the experiments I did and the many lessons learned over 20 years and you get the idea. The knowledge did not come fast or easy, there were many more failures than successes, but we learned from each event.

I am not complaining, it was good times and we loved the challenge.
Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 12:19:19 PM »

okay so Ed,in your video(52100 wootz)when you started forging the knife you didn't start with a 3'' steel rectangle like you get from Rex what did you do up to that point?do you still forge the same way as the first video?and do you do any liquid nitrogen soaks on your knives? 
Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3503



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 12:44:06 PM »

The steel used in the video was forged down from a slice cut from 6 1/2 inch round bar by Doc Daugherty on a 100 ton Chambersburg air hammer to a 3 x 6 inch billet. Doc has been forging for over 40 years in a steel mill and one of the best.  I cut the billet in half and then heated the two halves to critical temp in my Paragon, held them at critical temp for 2 hours and let them cool down to room temp in the closed Paragon. this was done to make each billet as uniform as possible.

I then welded one of the pieces to a bar and forged them down to billets measuring several feet and  2" x 3" billets.

These were forged down using my Beaudry just like in my first video.  All low temp forging, all strikes with the hammer to the sides and future cutting edge.  I never strike the future spine of the blade, this insures the greatest benefits by forging are all concentrated on the cutting edge.

Rather that show what we had already demonstrated in the first video this was not shown in the 52100 Wootz DVD.

The only time I use liquid nitrogen is to test the quality of the blade as I have worked it up. If liquid nitrogen makes a big difference in cut, I know that I need to modify my techniques to better get the most out of the 52100.  this little test has taught me a lot about forging temperatures, thermal cycles and heat treat.

It all starts with your selection of steel, if the quality is there you are in good shape for the rest of your testing will all be with the same steel. Then it is the first heat, first hit with the hammer and all the way to the final temper. Testing each blade to indicate quality control and testing some to destruction as further insurance that the client will be getting the best blade I can make.

I continue to learn and still anxious to see what I can learn from the next blade.  Testing is our best friend when we seek the HEPK.

Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 07:01:43 PM »

What does the 2 hour soak at critical do? so whats different in your forging sequence now and what you did in your first video?Thank for the answers its helping allot!!!
Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
davidm
Member
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
***
Posts: 915


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 11:47:31 AM »

I also have a video question about starting with proper grain allignment. In the first Knife Talk video, Ed was etching the round ball bearing before any forging to determine the directional flow of grain.   My question is, of what importance was this to know?  Would it make an inferior blade, or irregular looking finish if this was off?
Thanks!
Logged
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2013, 01:08:51 PM »

what does to mean when you say don't run your forge ''rich'' or ''oxygen rich'' ?how can I avoid that?how do you get your grass/wheat logo on your guard?
Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
jared williams
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 316


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2013, 01:34:45 PM »

David, finding the grain of the ball bearing is much like finding the grain in a block of wood. By forging the bearing out with the length of the grain it helps to keep the grain flowing in the long cirection of the blade. Think about a piece of wood, if the grain flows the length of the board it is harder to break and has better flex than if the grain of the board goes across the width of the board.

D-Vision, thanks for all the great questions! An oxygen rich atmosphere in a forge promotes oxidation, you want a neutral burn in your forge meaning that the gas and air supply is equal. one way to tell is how much excess flame is coming out of the forge, another is with a carbon monoxide detector. you can also look at the color of the flame coming out of the burner nozzle. If you google gas forge burners you can find a lot of videos showing how a burner flame should look and a bunch of differant ways of telling how a burner should run.
Logged

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3503



View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 01:01:01 AM »

When I missed reading the grain flow in a ball bearing before I started forging I would get very interesting grain swirls in my etched blades. While they did not significantly influence blade performance as far as I could tell, I did my best to prevent their occurrence. Some of those swirls were very beautiful. But not what I would want in a blade I might have to depend on.

This was mostly when I was using 2" ball  bearings. Determining grain flow in a smaller ball bearing is difficult due the small size.
Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 12:58:12 PM »

 whats different in your forging sequence now than what you did in your first video Ed?and how do you put the logos on your guards?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 01:06:04 PM by D-Vision » Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 01:10:53 PM »

I almost forgot how do you put your logos  on your guards? Grin
Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3503



View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2013, 11:57:09 AM »

There were many changes in the years between the DVD's.

The addition of a Paragon was a huge step forward, controlled thermal cycles were very significant.

One of the most significant events was the inclusion of three post forging quenches after the blade was completely forged, then the three normalizing heats, there are many more, most significant was when Rex Walter joined me and we did countless experiments, me evaluating function and when I achieved what I wanted, Rex went to work and told me why. He also explained the cause of many failures, each event had its influence in the blades we make today.

The branches and leaves on my guards are engraved using a NgraverR. Model 100. At first I used an engraving tool I made myself using a engraving bit inserted into a large bridge spike. I tapped the spike with a light hammer, I used it until I broke my wrist in a wreck involving a horse, cow, rope and myself. I could no longer tap with the hammer so went to the NgraverR. I wore the first one out in a year practicing my engraving and they replaced it at no charge.
Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2013, 12:31:01 PM »

thanks Ed your advise is in high regard it's exciting to be able to talk with you!!! is that NgraverR. Model 100 a rotatory tool?
Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1133



View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2013, 06:12:31 PM »

Hey Ed why do you put the tip of the blade in the oil first when your heat treating it?
Logged

Consistent, Repeatable Performance is the goal
http://www.rohdeedge.com/
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!