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Author Topic: old time forging  (Read 1471 times)
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Ed Fowler
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« on: January 20, 2013, 10:42:28 AM »

The man really knows what he is doing
<object codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/zpeyhC-UIFg" width="425px" height="350px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zpeyhC-UIFg" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /><param name="pluginspage" value="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></object> (External Embedding Disabled)    

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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 09:24:55 AM »

What you have seen is the mass production forging like what was used for the Sheffield forged knife industry the last few 100's of years.
For whose makers who forge and have watched the video and encourage you visit Chat tonight to discuss the relevant details.

Chat starts at 7:00 pm mountain standard time.
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 05:40:48 PM »

There are many reasons for forging a blade:
A) Many times it is economy of resources, steel can be expensive and if we can forge it to the shape we want with less grinding we save money on materials. This was one reason he forged as he did.

B) Some times the quality steel we want to use for knives is not available in the size we wish it to be, forging larger stock is the only way we can use the steel of our choice.

C) Forging and heat treating with the knowledge and desire to preserve and enhance the quality of the steel for use as a knife.

A properly forged blade gains in performance qualities in proportion to the rate of reduction of that steel. The way he forged he would have at best had a 3 point rate of reduction. This is not much better than a stock removal blade, except he was able to conserve his steel.

You can see that he did not leave much scale on the anvil, this indicates that he was well aware of the importance of low temperature forging. He also forged down below critical temp, or until the steel started to resist the force of his hammer, this would have influenced his desire to preserved his steel resource as well as enhance performance.

He hardened the blade in water, but he did not harden the tang or ricasso.  Hardening tangs is a great source of blade failure.

His tempering methods were simple and may have worked fairly well, they do not lend themselves to a high endurance type of knife, but will serve the general population fairly well.

Anyone who has any thoughts is welcome to share them with us.
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Harold Locke
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 06:52:11 PM »

Just got to the video today. Sorry to take so long.

An impressive old forger, he claims to be the last of his breed there in England. I counted that he is about 83. I will have to go over the video some more.

Looks like he still enjoys knives as a hobby. Did you notice the knives he showed were all going outside the country. Hmm. Weapons Bans???

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davidm
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 09:11:37 PM »

Hi Ed,
Is there another name to this video i can go and watch direct from youtube? - it is not allowing me to open, reading "external embedding disabled". Thanks
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2013, 09:50:42 PM »

In the lower right hand corner there is a little box that says watch on u tube, that is how I get there. Put the arrow on it and it turns red
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 07:23:10 PM »

That guy is fast and accurate!!!!
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2013, 06:03:43 PM »

Another aspect of is methods to watch, almost every strike on the cutting edge is followed by a strike on the side of the blade. This prevents mushrooming that happens when you strike the cutting edge from being forged into the sides of the cutting edge where they will become faults that encourage chips and a defective blade.
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Daniel Rohde (D-Vision)
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 11:50:16 AM »

here's another old style forging
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mreich
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2013, 02:20:33 PM »

Another aspect of is methods to watch, almost every strike on the cutting edge is followed by a strike on the side of the blade. This prevents mushrooming that happens when you strike the cutting edge from being forged into the sides of the cutting edge where they will become faults that encourage chips and a defective blade.

I totally agree that mushrooming the edge is inviting disaster. The worst thing is that half the time you find it when the blade is done. You pull it out of the etchant, and low and behold, you have a crack. Etchant really does a number on fissures. Especially on ones too small to be readily seen.

Of course you are always going to contend with mushrooming, but it's kinda natural to try to pound out all the mushrooming before you put it back in the forge. This leads to pounding harder on cold steel, which is the recipe for disaster, IMHO.
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Ed Fowler
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 09:42:49 PM »

I try to work the mushrooming out in the same heat that I created it. If it is too cool, just put it back in the forge then hammer it out when it is up to forging temp.

One aspect that you mentioned that I would like to add a little emphasis to - is the information the blade smith can learn from his blades when he etches them. The etched blade is very revealing concerning heat treat and small faults we have created in the steel or some that come to us from the steel mill. Secrets become an open book that the maker can learn from, as well as the client who is interested in the knife.
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