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Author Topic: Knife Rights  (Read 22945 times)
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radicat
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« on: February 09, 2007, 10:17:26 PM »

     The subject of "knife related laws and how we are affected by them" is worthy of extensive discussion. It is complicated and wide in scope.
     First I would like to find out what others are doing about the erosion of our rights. I posed some questions to one organization that says they are dedicated to preserving our knife rights. When there is a response/reaction to my query, I will report back to you here. Then we willl have a better understanding of the problem. I simply asked these questions.

What successes can this organization tell us about?
What politicians have established themselves as being anti-knife rights?
What politicians have demonstrated a willingness to fight for our knife rights?
What cutlery industry firms have done anything to fight for our knife rights?
What does this organization plan to do about the loss of our knife rights?
How much money do you need to post this information on this forum?

     Please feel free to begin a dialogue immediately, in reply to this post. Keep in mind that we can make more progress if we refrain from turning on one another simply because we disagree.  Politics is involved in this issue, but our aim should not be to do anything other than determine the cause of our loss of rights and what to do about it. 
         

« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 06:44:36 PM by radicat » Logged
 
radicat
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 07:43:16 PM »

 The above questions reflect my view that no matter how much we know about the problem of losing our knife rights, until we convince the actual lawmakers of the advantages of supporting legislation that will restore and preserve our rights, we will be forgotten.
  The more we know about the problem, the more prepared we will be to solve it.
How do you feel about my position on this?
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radicat
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 09:22:02 PM »

     I recommend the following reading for anyone interested in this subject. Learn about laws in your state. Learn about the history of knife law legisaltion and the attitudes behind them.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/links.htm
 

 
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radicat
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2007, 07:36:21 AM »

     Revtwo, I hope you will find the time to tell us more about the court case you won for us all.
I know I speak for everyone when I say " Thank you, for all of your efforts.". 
     Please tell us more about yourself and how you came to be a defender of a knife owner.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 04:20:50 PM by radicat » Logged
radicat
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 04:25:04 AM »

     Well, it's been over ten days since I tried to get the closest thing to a knife owners advocate organization to respond to the above questions. Not too impressive. I would consider the twenty eight (28) dollar membership fee to join that organization to be a bad investment. It would be better to use that money to #$$# with, than to help them dupe the public into thinking someone is doing something to protect our knife rights. As long as people believe that someone else is working on a problem , the enemy is getting stonger and bolder. Politicians love impotent organizatons that prevent pressure on them through providing false hope. I think to set up an organization, collect fees, go jetting around to knife shows, party a lot, and accomplish nothing makes you the enemy.
           
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 07:54:15 PM by radicat » Logged
Ed Fowler
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 07:36:34 PM »

The past few years Evan Nappen and Dave Kowlaski of AKTI have mae presentations at Blade Show. The crowd attending has always been sparce although their presentation was very well done. It seems like the world of knives in this country is pretty uninterested.

There have been a few outrages that brought out some who would fight for example: sometimes when kids who get in trouble over knives in school make the headlines the news may bring out a few protests but nothing like there should be.

Erich Fromm wrote a book titled "Excape From Freedom", a discussion that included the unconcerned attitude of the German people as the Nazi party slowly took control. I fear this unconcerned attitude is growing with little to slow its death in the United States.

We came to life to fight gun control and did well - so far. I only hope that we as members of the American community can make a stand over knife rights before it is too late.

California has a lot of knife laws on the books, most are unconcerned because enforcement is largely discriminatory toward a large minorty who are obvious and the white population is not subject to enforcement of the knife laws. Dig into the state court records and you will see most of the criminals have Spanish sir names. ie Garcia vs the people, Rodrigues vs the people. The folks who make the laws do not feel that they will be restricted by them. This is the big danger.

"We will have justice only when those who are not victimized by injustice are as outraged as those who are victims of injustice. "

That is an old quote, who said it I can't remember but I believe his name was on the Declaration of Independence.

It may be that we need to be awakened by threat, but I sincerely wish there was more concern than we can see now.
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 08:05:55 PM »

     Thank you Ed, for your clear description of the problem we face today. You quoted Thomas Jefferson. He would have only carried a small pen knife. Over 18,000 letters that he wrote in his adult life are in the National Archive. He had strong beliefs and he was tireless in trying to get others to be as enlightened as he. He believed that the first responsibility of government is to protect the people. He did not believe in laws that were based on what people were capable of doing, rather than on what wrong-doing they did. Today we are in jeopardy of losing our right to carry a knife because of what the pious think we might do.
    When I lived in the Washington, D.C. area, within D.C., possession of a firearm was forbidden to all but law enforcement. D. C. had the highest per capita gun related death rate in the world. I could buy "any" gun within four hours in D. C. from a criminal that carried a handgun even into government buildings. Criminals will have their knives. Law-abiding  citizens will not.
    Younger men may lament as to how we were right someday, but I'm already saddened by the thought.         
 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 07:56:59 PM by radicat » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 10:09:56 PM »

Thanks for knowing the source of the quote. I have racks of books by the founding fathers, some thoughts stick, but the names always illude me.

Our civilization is not very old, a little over 200 years. Still the danger signs are prominent. I wonder if in this day of rapid communication civilizations may age quicker? I hope not.

I worry when I hear and see folks who do not carry knives, feeling they are civilized and depend on others to do their job for them. I feel this is our greatest danger, a loss of self reliance. We blame others for our misfortune and rest peacefully believing our public servants will protect us. Just maybe this could be a source of awakening - publish loud and clear when the public servants fail. Soon some would come to realize they must be prepared themselves.

I don't mean to cast a shaddow on public servants, they do all they can, but when folks place all the responsability on those paid to protect us, we put too much on them. There is no way we can have an officer of the law near when needed. The politicians claim they can do it, and achieve votes, but they are on top and not in the trenches where the action is. They cast blame, and promice to do better, but we put too much responsability on the public servant.

Look back at 9-11, the only success story was when passengers took charge and did their job. Those priviate citizens who step up to the plate when needed are the greatest asset we have and these are the folks who need to be encouraged to the fullest. Call it recognition, or inspiration but I feel we have got to encourage participation in the security effort or we will fail.

They do not respond to a failure of law enforcement but to support it. It is a tough sell.

 
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2007, 03:05:35 PM »

     Scaring people into giving up their knives by making their possession illegal and then offering amnesty is a stupid policy. The handing in of a hundred thousand knives by law-abiding citizens in the British Isles only reduced their security and strenghtened the criminal element's resolve. When they start doing this in the U.S.A. there will be no consideration of how it failed elsewhere. Does your minister or government representative carry a knife? You'd better hope so. Otherwise, you may loose your right to do so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6216118.stm
« Last Edit: April 14, 2007, 03:10:38 PM by radicat » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2007, 06:59:17 AM »

     We have at least one British knife enthusiast as a member, maybe more. Smiling-knife, I'm curious about your opinion of the knife law changes taking place in your country. Maybe you could keep us abreast of what's happening. Many of us are concerned that the anti-knife attitudes will take hold in the U.S..
     Some stories are on-line, but local attitudes are not always reflected. I know violence with a knife exists, but restricting ownership doesn't seem to prevent criminals from having them.
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PhilL
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 04:00:34 PM »

Sometimes the knife community is it's own worst enemy.
What percentage of the knives being sold are tactical by design, meant only to be used as a weapon? If the knife buying public is buying weapons, don't be too surprised when others view them as a threat. Our elected officials have one major goal, to get and stay in office. If the majority of voters view knives as weapons, and feel threatened by them, it's not hard to guess which side these politicians are going to come down on in the knife question.

Our job as makers, buyers, collectors, dealers is to show knives as tools, that are practical and functional in hundreds of every day applications. Our second goal should be to get knives in the hands (and pockets) of as many people as we can. Once a person sees and understands why it is so smart to have even a small knife with them, the less likely they are to object or be afraid of your knife.
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Harold Locke
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2007, 09:01:16 PM »

Right on Phil,

Your idea falls in line with something I do. I buy a bunch of cheap and not so cheap knives every year and they all seem to get passed out here and there. Nothing bothers me more than a man and nowdays even women that don't have a knife at hand.

And most of these people I have given these (folding pocket knives) have sooner than later found that it has become a tool that they now find neccesary to have at all the time. And they admit that in tense situations they are comforted knowing that they have some kind of defense.

The knife is man's most primal tool and companion.

Harold
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2007, 06:51:51 AM »

Good thoughts:
Each of us in an ambassador to the folks who don't know, it is up to each of us to manage our immage.

Personally I detest the ads with the black shrouded ninjas standing ready to fight the devil and fear they hurt the immage of our champion. When the time comes to fight for our knife rights, those who promote the 'assault knife' will take their profits and leave us to fight for justice.

I have mulled these thoughts over and over for years. It all comes to the obvious. Don't blame the knife, it is the person. If we fall to the errors others have made who condemed the assault rifle, we will begin to lose incrementally. Evan made the statement, if it goes bang or cut I like it and will defend it.
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2007, 08:04:09 PM »

Thanks for knowing the source of the quote. I have racks of books by the founding fathers, some thoughts stick, but the names always illude me.

Our civilization is not very old, a little over 200 years. Still the danger signs are prominent. I wonder if in this day of rapid communication civilizations may age quicker? I hope not.

I worry when I hear and see folks who do not carry knives, feeling they are civilized and depend on others to do their job for them. I feel this is our greatest danger, a loss of self reliance. We blame others for our misfortune and rest peacefully believing our public servants will protect us. Just maybe this could be a source of awakening - publish loud and clear when the public servants fail. Soon some would come to realize they must be prepared themselves.

I don't mean to cast a shaddow on public servants, they do all they can, but when folks place all the responsability on those paid to protect us, we put too much on them. There is no way we can have an officer of the law near when needed. The politicians claim they can do it, and achieve votes, but they are on top and not in the trenches where the action is. They cast blame, and promice to do better, but we put too much responsability on the public servant.

Look back at 9-11, the only success story was when passengers took charge and did their job. Those priviate citizens who step up to the plate when needed are the greatest asset we have and these are the folks who need to be encouraged to the fullest. Call it recognition, or inspiration but I feel we have got to encourage participation in the security effort or we will fail.

They do not respond to a failure of law enforcement but to support it. It is a tough sell.

 


As a public servant I thank you, Ed, for not casting a shadow on us.  You have addressed a huge problem with the "loss of self-reliance".  I have many thoughts on the topic and so little time to share them.  It saddens me to see parents that want Law Enforcement to raise their children and mediate in every affair where adults should be conducting themselves as adults.  It definitely isn't like it used to be with people anymore.  Used to be that people could rely on each other instead of the government, but I think people have lost respect for each other and that's why no one talks to their neighbor before calling Law Enforcement.  I better stop before I get to rambling on. -Matt-
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2007, 06:39:17 AM »

Evan is always sending me news about the fight against knives in England. I ask myself how can this kind of thinking evolve?

I believe that one primairy source lies in the schools that teach our children. I was amazed when the local school district banned knives in school. I made an apointment with the superintendent and we had quite a debate. He agreed that knives could come in handy much of the time, but it was the low life students in our school system that needed their knives taken away. The 'good kids' never got in trouble with knives. I asked why they did not simply strongly discipline the kids who abused their right to carry knives.

His response was that it was easier to simply ban knives for all students and teachers did not want to make judgment calls.

Now I realize that in the past 30 years we have taught  a generation that knives are bad. It all started in the schools and 'rules' for all rather than punish bad behavior. This is the problem we will face on down the line.

Many fight to ban books and we fight for freedom of the students to read what they want to read. We fight for prayers or against prayers, but there was little fight for knives in schools.

Sad but true, we let it happen!

I don't know how to fix it, but maybe someone has some ideas.
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