Knife Talk Online Forums
  Home membership Help Search Calendar Members Classifieds Treasury Store Links Gallery Media Center Login Register  
Custom Search
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Hira Zukuri tanto in the Masamune Hocho style  (Read 11677 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Chuck Fogarty
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
***
Posts: 63



View Profile WWW
« on: February 07, 2012, 05:23:09 PM »

Hey Y'all,

I thought I would post up a pic of a tanto that I just finished. This blade is in the style of a Masamune Hocho that was made during the late 12 early 13 hundreds. Hocho means "Kitchen Knife"  cause thats what these tantos sort of look like. This blade is 11 1/4" long with a 7 3/4" cutting edge. It was forged out of W-2 and hardened with clay in Parks #50. There is a white line through the bottom half of the pic that is a remnent from photoshop when I put the two pics together.
   

« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 05:59:21 PM by Chuck Fogarty » Logged
Chuck Fogarty
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
***
Posts: 63



View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012, 05:29:00 PM »

for some reason I cant get this pic to show on the forum. but if you click the link it will take you to the pic
Logged
PhilL
Administrator
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1067



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012, 05:40:56 PM »

Chuck I think the reason the photo isn't showing is that the link you have is to a web page and not to a photo. Links to photos usually end in ".jpg" right before the "[/img]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75458065@N07/6838393137

Logged

You can have anything You want in Life, as long as you?re willing to pay the Price.
So, figure out what price there is to pay, and Pay It.


Chuck Fogarty
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
***
Posts: 63



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, 06:00:15 PM »

Ok I think I got it now, Thanks Phil!

Chuck
Logged
PhilL
Administrator
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1067



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 06:08:22 PM »

You do have it!
Beautiful blade!
Logged

You can have anything You want in Life, as long as you?re willing to pay the Price.
So, figure out what price there is to pay, and Pay It.


Chuck Fogarty
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
***
Posts: 63



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 10:36:43 AM »

Hey Y'all,

Last night on chat Ed asked me to write something about how I did that tanto so here goes.

I austenite forge (low temp) all my blades, When Im doing a blade I never let it get more that a little dandruff scale on it. I forged that tanto blade out of a 3" W-2 round bar, so it has been reduced by quite a bit.

All during forging I thermal cycle and normalize as much as I can. Then I do six normalizes day before the quench. The purpose here is to get the grain size down as small as possible. When you reduce the grain size you also reduce the hardenability of the blade and that is what you want so that the hamon follows the clay exactly and dont wander up where it aint supposed to be.

After the normalizes I sand all the scale off longitudinally with 150 grit sandpaper, that gives the clay something to grip onto while it is expanding and contracting and I degrease the blade carefully so there are no oils or anything like that which could prevent the clay from sticking.

I use satanite for the clay. That stuff is the bomb. It sticks like glue and I usually have to beat it off the blade after the quench with a small hammer and a big wire brush. It comes as a powder and you mix it up with a little bit of water until it is the consistency of toothpaste. I usually cover the whole blade in the stuff and then wipe off the clay where the hamon is supposed to be on both sides with my fingers pinched together. You want to make sure the spine and tang are covered well so they do not harden. Have lots of paper towels on hand and some popsicle sticks help a lot of the time too, it is pretty messy. Once you have the clay how you want it clamp the blade someplace safe and let the clay dry for about a hour and then go back and get any small lines or corrections to the hamon that need to be done while the clay is still tacky, then let it dry overnight. There are a lot of different ways to apply clay and I have just barely scratched the surface.

On quench night I get my quench tank out with the Parks #50 in it and put it on my anvil facing north (that is my own little superstition there) and when it is warm it is ok at room temp but if it is cold I heat it up some by putting a hot piece of steel in there. I get my forge nice and warm with a pretty hot flame going (usually about 5-6 lbs of gas pressure) and I heat the blade up evenly by running it in and out of the forge on the tang end until the blade is orange then I flip it around and bring the tip up to heat. When the edge goes non magnetic I let it soak for about a minute while Im running it in and out and flipping it side to side so that it is very even heat then I jerk it out of there(making sure I dont knock any clay off of course) and fully quench it until the blade turns black and stops fuming when you pull it out of the parks. Parks #50 is a quench oil specially designed to mimic the properties of a water quench but with less stress to the blade. Even japanese masters only have about a 50% success rate with a water quench that is a lot of wasted time and effort in my book.

Then I bust the clay off there and sand off the scale on the grinder real quick and throw it in the oven at 475F for 2 hours x3. After the first temper I do the 220 grit hand sanding to remove the oxides and then temper again then I do the 320 grit hand sanding after the second temper so by the end of the third temper Im already up to 400 grit on the sanding. I usually wait a day between tempers.

Up to 2000 grit I use sandpaper on a glass plate with oil to help the cut. Then I start etching the blade. You can go two ways with the etching weak acid like lemon juice for a long period of time(usually half hour to a hour) or you can go with ferric chloride for 10 seconds at a time. If you use the weaker acid you usually pick up more of the detail in the hamon, if you use the stronger ferric you get more contrast but less detail (I used ferric on this blade). After I etch, I polish off the oxides with flitz and this jap metal polish called Pikal. I usually etch 6-10 times with the ferric, more with the lemon juice. Once I get it about where I want it I use glass lapping compound mixed with machine oil rubbed on the blade to get rid of any minute scratches and it really makes the hard part of the blade pop out at you.

So that is it in a nutshell, any questions just give a holler.

Chuck
Logged
Chuck Fogarty
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
***
Posts: 63



View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2012, 10:48:29 AM »

That blade is also for sale if anyone is interested $300 plus shipping
Logged
Ed Fowler
Administrator
Trade Count: (1)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3504



View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2012, 01:16:40 PM »

That is beautiful Chuck: Last night when you said you have worked on it for a year I wondered, now I understand.

The knowledge you revealed as you described your methods has taken much longer, I sincerely thank you for sharing with us.
There is a lot of devotion in that blade and your understanding of the tanto blade shape is a delight to read. All I have seen is Americanized tantos I have listened to Japanese collectors talking about how our understanding was lacking, now I understand.

I believe you should have asked more for her, but that is your decision.

Very well done on both the blade and the explanation of how it was done.
Thank you for sharing!
Logged

Ed Fowler High Performance Knives
http://edfowler.com/
Chuck Fogarty
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
***
Posts: 63



View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2012, 05:07:37 PM »

Thanks for the kind words Ed. I worked on this for a year but it was sitting on the bench for months at a time while took care of other things. In reality this whole process takes about maybe 10 hours more than a regular blade that is hand sanded to 600 grit. I dont want to scare anyone off here.

Chuck
Logged
B.K. Mains
HEPKA Member In Good Standing
Trade Count: (0)
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 203



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2012, 05:08:30 PM »

That's really nice, Chuck. Really nice. I'm wondering about a handle now. How about blue stone and a thin guard made of some dark, gun blued metal. A dark blue stone..........

BK......
Logged

If I had one, good knife......
Chuck Fogarty
Trade Count: (0)
Full Member
***
Posts: 63



View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2012, 07:43:44 PM »

Thanks BK,

Right now I dont really do japanese handle and sheath mounts. They take a really long time, often more time than the blade itself. In japan there is more of a division of labor than there is here, so usually there are about 8 different craftsmen that make a japanese knife or sword. Already by making the blade and polishing and sharpening it I am doing the jobs of 2 japanese people. A lot of makers and collectors of jap blades are really only worried about the blade, they get the mounts done professionally by someone who does that for a living. Matter of fact there is a place in the US that does that. Fred Lohman Company makes sword mounts and fittings and they do antique jap sword restoration here is their website: 

http://www.japanese-swords.com/

I really like being a bladesmith but after the blade is done and polished out and I get to see the prize at the end of the tunnel (the hamon) I pretty much lose interest in them. I like that division of labor where a bladesmith makes blades and someone else does the rest. Scandanavian bladesmithing is the same way, bladesmith makes blades and knifemaker makes handle, guard and sheath.

I enjoy making these jap blades because you can sell them as just a blade and they dont have any plunge lines or ricasso which I do well but I dont like to do either. Ive often thought about doing just blades of all types and sell them for other people to finish out like Bob Engnath did. I am working my way up through the jap blade food chain first mono steel tantos, then wakizashis, and someday full blown katanas, then I go to multi bar construction where everything is folded many times and it is all welded together. I see these jap blades as sort of a stepping stone though to making viking and saxon pattern welded blades. Learning japanese bladesmithing is really neat and you can learn a lot but I really think the viking/saxon stuff is cooler and then you get to learn more about your own ancestors if that is who you came from. That scandanavian stuff has a certain flow that so far has been really hard for me to get right though.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!