San Francisco style bowie pics

[Chuck Fogarty]

Hey Y'all,

This is my first post here. Right now Im working on my knives hopefully to take the ABS journeyman smith test this year. Here are a couple of not very good pics of a san francisco style bowie I just finished up. I bought and read "Knifemakers of old san francisco " while I was working on this knife. What a great read!

Knife specs: 5160 steel, nickel silver guard, shields, and pins, a steel framed handle with desert ironwood burl scales.

10 3/4" OAL, 6" blade, 4 3/4 inch handle.

Hope y'all like the pics.

     

[PhilL]

Hiya Chuck, I'm glad you decided to join us.
I'm a friend of your Dad's and I had some photos of you when you were testing with Daniel Winkler on my album site.

As far as liking your pictures, you've found an interesting way to show a mirror polish by reflecting the camera in the blade. That's usually a no no.

I have a tutorial in our Gallery forum on 'How I Photograph Knives' I think you might get some ideas on how to improve your photos. If you ever need any help I'm only an email away.

The knife is absolutely beautiful, and it deserves the best photos you're able to take.

Chuck I hope you'll add a link to your website in your siganture.
For you readers if you want to see more of Chuck's work click on this.

http://www.fogartyknives.com/

[Chuck Fogarty]

Hi Phil,

Glad to meet you, any friend of my dad's is a friend of mine. Thanks for the compliments on the knife.

Sorry again about the quality of the pics they were just offhand snapshots with no setup except a white piece of paper for a background. The blade seems to be mirror polished in the pics but it is really a 2000 grit hand rubbed finish, I guess it does reflect a lot though. I will check out your photo taking tutorial as I need all the help I can get in that area.

I could have swore that I added my website address to my profile yesterday I guess it didnt take or something. I will go back and mess with it again. Thanks for throwing it up there for everyone.

Chuck

[Ed Fowler]

Welcome to the form Chuck: That is one nice knife and I am very pleased to see a bladesmith championing the knives of old San Francisco. They have largely been forgotten in favor of the more numerous Sheffield knives that invaded our shores until the tariff of the 1860's. You are preserving a significant part of the knives of America, made in America and used in America. While many were sold overseas, most - as far as we know - remained here.

There are not a lot of them as they were closer to the frontier and many used and sharpened until they were no more while the Sheffield knives remained in dresser drawers on the east coast.

I really like your choice of a knife that fits both our history and function.

I look forward to seeing more of these kind of knives as you get them photographed.  

[PhilL]

Hey Ed, Chuck is Pat (aka pff) from Chat son.
I hope you get the chance to click the link to his website in my last post.

[Chuck Fogarty]

Ed and Phil, thanks for the kind words on the knife. This was my first San Fran style knife and I really enjoyed it. After I got it finished I found it to be a very nice in-hand design with great balance and weight. The blade seems to be much bigger than its actual 6" length, it is a stout knife. Im seriously thinking of keeping this one for meself when all this is over with.

I have long been interested in y'all's descriptions of Micheal Price's father's grinding technique. For some reason what you describe seems to be how I usually grind my knives naturally (something I actually had to work to overcome while working towards this test).

This knife has a framed handle but the more research that I did on the subject, at least as far as M. Price is concerned, the more I came to realize that he actually heat treated the blades on his knives, added a guard, and then wrapped them in something to keep them cool and then forged the flares and taper into the tang on the full tang knives that he made. I put such a high grit polish on the blade cause all the ones I have seem were either highly polished or in some cases even silver plated.

Since I have started doing some historical bowies I am seriously thinking of specializing in that, I really like making them. Right now Im working on a classic William Butcher bowie that is on page 7 of Flaydermans bowie book I think. Im doing the one with the flatter handle. When I did the blade a while back I didnt have good pictures and I didnt realize that those two bowies actually have a very high saber grind to them, which I did not duplicate. Right now Im very paranoid about doing anything oddball thinking that it might affect the outcome of my test. A while back I got the rare opportunity to sit down with a Buck Brothers presentation bowie that my dad has and I sketched the whole thing out as accurately as I could and wrote down all of the dimensions. I'd really like to make a copy of that sometime soon. Every time I get to see my dads knife collection it is like christmas  It has actually taken me a long time of learning to get to the point where I can actually appreciate a lot of the old knives and how they were made. In the beginning I could look at these knives but I didnt really understand them, now I can pick them up and almost get a vulcan mind meld with the guy who made them.

Here's a question for y'all. In my researching old knives I have found that a lot of them taper towards the spine (as in a saber grind) or are peaked to a point at the spine (as in many japanese and scandanavian knives). I know that the japanese at least did extremely thorough testing of thier blades ability to cut over hundreds of years. Heres the question: do y'all think that a spine that is peaked or a blade that tapers toward the spine even slightly offers less drag during a cut just like a boat tail on a bullet creates less drag on the bullet? Just a interesting thought..................

Chuck

[Ed Fowler]

Chuck: you have a wealth of information on older knives through your father Pat, when you examine them try to develop their potential to something better. Knives of Europe have many lessons we have not even considered yet.

I used to make blades with a swell toward the front third of the blade to provide strength and mass for heavy work, then met the ABS and shifted to the distal taper for a while. It did not take long to learn the distal taper was well suited to the kitchen but left a lot lacking when it comes to field work. It seems we share the same vision.

Many of the early American Blades are great examples of men who knew what a knife was for and how to design one to meet the demands of heavy use. Consider the Ames Rifleman's Knife, the Huber and others. To my the Huber was the ultimate Bowie, not many examples remain for they were used doing what knives are for on the frontier and in the field until they were no more.

The knives of old San Francisco were probably the best of the fancy - yet useful knives. I got to play with an early Price knife and found many lessons manifest in her design. A guard that did not dig into my hand, the guard was rounded and smooth therefor kind to my hand. The handle dropped rather than the 'broomstick' handles we see so often in custom knives we see today.

A truly great book filled with ideas for knife design can be found in "Cat's Paws and Catapults" by Steven Vogel, you can buy the book used on the Internet. Considering the dynamics of living organisms you can come to understand why some designs are much better than others. Many explanations of knife designs found in older knives become understandable from a functional description of the science of cut. The boat tail design is one of these.

Somewhere I have a book that I read many years ago about the geometry of fish and how various aspects influenced their ability for efficiency in speed and maneuverability through water, many of these attributes are readily adaptable to knives.

When you see sharp grind lines on blades, you need to ask why and what for. Some have a functional basis, many are there only because some think they are a symptom of craftsmanship and through that imply function. A few simple comparison tests on your part will reveal their true nature.

I wish you good times and please feel free to ask any time you feel the desire to share the consideration of any aspect of knife design with me and others on this form.

You are more than welcome to join your dad and the rest of us in chat tonight.

[Chuck Fogarty]

Ed,

Thanks for the interesting thoughts. I will have to get a copy of the book you recommend and see what it has to say.

Thanks also for your invitation to the chat but, as my dad will tell you, for some reason internet chat just annoys the crap out of me. I also was super busy tonight making the handle frame for that W. Butcher bowie I am working on. I am enjoying these framed handles, they are like putting together a intricate puzzle box or something.

Chuck Fogarty